<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.0.2" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Plug it in and Get Physical</title>
	<link>http://www.aelon.net/2005/03/plug-it-in-and-get-physical/</link>
	<description>Random babblings from a few digitally inclined people</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2</generator>

	<item>
		<title>by: Kelmon</title>
		<link>http://www.aelon.net/2005/03/plug-it-in-and-get-physical/#comment-613</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2005 07:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.aelon.net/2005/03/plug-it-in-and-get-physical/#comment-613</guid>
					<description>Parallel computing is the future, far more so than an add-on card, in my opinion.  With Intel, AMD and IBM all producing dual-core processors with the ability to process  multiple threads simultaneously per core (effectively adding additional &quot;virtual&quot; cores), the hardware situation is looking pretty rosy and simply requires that the OS supports this sort of processing.  Not sure what the Windows side of this fence looks like, but OS X is built on the Mach 3 microkernel that will quite happily run threads on as many CPUs as you have available.  A quick check in the Activity Manager shows that approximately 50% of the processes running on my laptop have 2 or more threads running up to a maximum (at the moment) of 36 threads.  If the OS is able to support the scheduling of threads to processors (rather than process to processors), then any application can take advantage of parallel computing as simply as it can with a single processor.  From the context of this discussion, physics needs only to be a separate thread in order to take advantage of additional processors (real or virtual).  I do agree that it is unlikely to be as quick as a dedicated physics processor (this point I do concede), but I do not see it has being something that is of great benefit to computing.  The GPU is making great contributions to the overall computing experience by not only providing some pretty flash graphics in games, but also in supporting the OS as a whole by taking over the job of drawing the screen.  This, as far as I am concerned, is a general enough task that it benefits everyone (assuming you use a GUI) and makes efficient use of the hardware that you bought.

We of course state that nobody is forcing anyone to use such PPU cards, but then the same could be said of graphic accelerator cards a few years ago and look how that one turned out.  However, what it does mean is that while your PC will continue to function as a computer without such a card, I would see it likely that one would be necessary to continue playing games on them.  Unless the cost of such hardware is negligible or included on existing components, then I can't see this benefiting the expansion of PC games as it'll be something else that needs upgrading and another expense that makes console gaming more appealing.  Seriously, it's bad enough that you have to keep upgrading your processor and graphics card without introducing something else that will no doubt change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Parallel computing is the future, far more so than an add-on card, in my opinion.  With Intel, AMD and IBM all producing dual-core processors with the ability to process  multiple threads simultaneously per core (effectively adding additional &#8220;virtual&#8221; cores), the hardware situation is looking pretty rosy and simply requires that the OS supports this sort of processing.  Not sure what the Windows side of this fence looks like, but OS X is built on the Mach 3 microkernel that will quite happily run threads on as many CPUs as you have available.  A quick check in the Activity Manager shows that approximately 50% of the processes running on my laptop have 2 or more threads running up to a maximum (at the moment) of 36 threads.  If the OS is able to support the scheduling of threads to processors (rather than process to processors), then any application can take advantage of parallel computing as simply as it can with a single processor.  From the context of this discussion, physics needs only to be a separate thread in order to take advantage of additional processors (real or virtual).  I do agree that it is unlikely to be as quick as a dedicated physics processor (this point I do concede), but I do not see it has being something that is of great benefit to computing.  The GPU is making great contributions to the overall computing experience by not only providing some pretty flash graphics in games, but also in supporting the OS as a whole by taking over the job of drawing the screen.  This, as far as I am concerned, is a general enough task that it benefits everyone (assuming you use a GUI) and makes efficient use of the hardware that you bought.</p>
<p>We of course state that nobody is forcing anyone to use such PPU cards, but then the same could be said of graphic accelerator cards a few years ago and look how that one turned out.  However, what it does mean is that while your PC will continue to function as a computer without such a card, I would see it likely that one would be necessary to continue playing games on them.  Unless the cost of such hardware is negligible or included on existing components, then I can&#8217;t see this benefiting the expansion of PC games as it&#8217;ll be something else that needs upgrading and another expense that makes console gaming more appealing.  Seriously, it&#8217;s bad enough that you have to keep upgrading your processor and graphics card without introducing something else that will no doubt change.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: JohnDoe</title>
		<link>http://www.aelon.net/2005/03/plug-it-in-and-get-physical/#comment-606</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.aelon.net/2005/03/plug-it-in-and-get-physical/#comment-606</guid>
					<description>IRT Kelmon

Ofcourse it'd be nice if there was just another general purpose CPU, but these are more complicated and expensive than a PPU, and do physics calculation slower too.

This PPU is purely for gamers (and perhaps people who run simulations or something), just as a video card is. Only now are operating systems beginning to use it as you say, but they will also leave an option to the user where he can chose not to use his video card for his GUI (I suspect I'll do this).

And a dedicated processing unit may be more versatile than you think. I've read about a sound editing program that used a video card by comverting waveforms into textures, and applying sound effects as shaders and such. Its not as straightforward as a general purpose PU, but this shows dedicated PU's can be used for other tasks too. 

Besides, this is made for the group of gamers who really liked the physics they saw in HL2 and want more of it. The most efficient way to do this is a PPU, not yet another CPU which will be less efficient at calculating the physics. Nobody is forcing you to buy it, and I think that the whole parallel computing you mention is just as much a niche market as games.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IRT Kelmon</p>
<p>Ofcourse it&#8217;d be nice if there was just another general purpose CPU, but these are more complicated and expensive than a PPU, and do physics calculation slower too.</p>
<p>This PPU is purely for gamers (and perhaps people who run simulations or something), just as a video card is. Only now are operating systems beginning to use it as you say, but they will also leave an option to the user where he can chose not to use his video card for his GUI (I suspect I&#8217;ll do this).</p>
<p>And a dedicated processing unit may be more versatile than you think. I&#8217;ve read about a sound editing program that used a video card by comverting waveforms into textures, and applying sound effects as shaders and such. Its not as straightforward as a general purpose PU, but this shows dedicated PU&#8217;s can be used for other tasks too. </p>
<p>Besides, this is made for the group of gamers who really liked the physics they saw in HL2 and want more of it. The most efficient way to do this is a PPU, not yet another CPU which will be less efficient at calculating the physics. Nobody is forcing you to buy it, and I think that the whole parallel computing you mention is just as much a niche market as games.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: JohnDoe</title>
		<link>http://www.aelon.net/2005/03/plug-it-in-and-get-physical/#comment-596</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Mar 2005 12:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.aelon.net/2005/03/plug-it-in-and-get-physical/#comment-596</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If you check Ageia’s site theres a few paragraphs about how Xbox will be using this technology in their next system. So PPU for Xbox 2? How come the gaming sites report nothing of a PPU?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Where? All I see is that they added support for the Xbox in their SDK. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If you check Ageia’s site theres a few paragraphs about how Xbox will be using this technology in their next system. So PPU for Xbox 2? How come the gaming sites report nothing of a PPU?</p></blockquote>
<p>Where? All I see is that they added support for the Xbox in their SDK.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Kelmon</title>
		<link>http://www.aelon.net/2005/03/plug-it-in-and-get-physical/#comment-595</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Mar 2005 12:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.aelon.net/2005/03/plug-it-in-and-get-physical/#comment-595</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;JohnDoe&quot;&gt;And video isnt a niche market? Seriously, who needs a GeForce 6800 Ultra Awesome, other than the die hard gamers (and possibly 3D artists). Physics are getting more and more important in games, just like video did years ago. Who knows, perhaps one day we’ll have a processing unit specifically for AI operations.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Ah, you misunderstand me somewhat (although I did wonder whether I'd phrased it correctly).  I agree and disagree with your statement.  Is a GeForce 6800 Ultra a necessary component for a modern computer?  No, and in that respect I do agree with you and accept that this form of graphics card is a niche market.  However, with both Windows (I think) and Apple integrating the use of a GPU into the operating system itself (in Apple's case, through Core Video), a suitable GPU is going to be necessary in order for various applications to run correctly if they use Core Video.  In this respect I see GPUs being mainstream but I'm not seeing an all-singing, all-dancing one as being necessary.

Anyway, I'm actually beginning to feel more strongly that the PPU is a bad idea.  This is mostly due to my feelings that it is a waste of computing resources and that I'd rather see more CPUs (physical or virtual) that can be used for parallel computing but which can be used by any application rather than just those that want to do physics.  Graphics are core to a modern computer and have been ever since the original Mac turned up in the mid 80's.  However, I just do not see physics being that important to computing.  I'd rather see more general purpose processors that can be used to run all my applications rather than a more specialist processors that will spend most of their time being idle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="JohnDoe"><p>And video isnt a niche market? Seriously, who needs a GeForce 6800 Ultra Awesome, other than the die hard gamers (and possibly 3D artists). Physics are getting more and more important in games, just like video did years ago. Who knows, perhaps one day we’ll have a processing unit specifically for AI operations.</p></blockquote>
<p>Ah, you misunderstand me somewhat (although I did wonder whether I&#8217;d phrased it correctly).  I agree and disagree with your statement.  Is a GeForce 6800 Ultra a necessary component for a modern computer?  No, and in that respect I do agree with you and accept that this form of graphics card is a niche market.  However, with both Windows (I think) and Apple integrating the use of a GPU into the operating system itself (in Apple&#8217;s case, through Core Video), a suitable GPU is going to be necessary in order for various applications to run correctly if they use Core Video.  In this respect I see GPUs being mainstream but I&#8217;m not seeing an all-singing, all-dancing one as being necessary.</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;m actually beginning to feel more strongly that the PPU is a bad idea.  This is mostly due to my feelings that it is a waste of computing resources and that I&#8217;d rather see more CPUs (physical or virtual) that can be used for parallel computing but which can be used by any application rather than just those that want to do physics.  Graphics are core to a modern computer and have been ever since the original Mac turned up in the mid 80&#8217;s.  However, I just do not see physics being that important to computing.  I&#8217;d rather see more general purpose processors that can be used to run all my applications rather than a more specialist processors that will spend most of their time being idle.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Holliday</title>
		<link>http://www.aelon.net/2005/03/plug-it-in-and-get-physical/#comment-592</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Mar 2005 16:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.aelon.net/2005/03/plug-it-in-and-get-physical/#comment-592</guid>
					<description>If you check Ageia's site theres a few paragraphs about how Xbox will be using this technology in their next system.  So PPU for Xbox 2? How come the gaming sites report nothing of a PPU?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you check Ageia&#8217;s site theres a few paragraphs about how Xbox will be using this technology in their next system.  So PPU for Xbox 2? How come the gaming sites report nothing of a PPU?
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
</channel>
</rss>
